Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Matt Mower's avatar

This question of the commons and of the ownership of land has often wrankled with me although I do not have a sophisticated enough understanding of the issues to argue them. In the world of the commons were there no resources? I mean is my hut part of the commons? Or mine? How do I defend my hut? Is our village part of the commons so that someone from outside our village can also freely/fairly (for whatever value of fair we choose) use it? Or does our village turn into "police" when they feel you are treated their resources as your commons? It seems to me there is no easy divide here.

Expand full comment
A Frank Ackerman's avatar

Chris, I would find it helpful if you would provide a little more information about other entities in social reality [1] that are closely related to the concept you present here. You mentioned Ivan Illich. Where might I find comments of Ivan’s that are pertinent to your reference?

Lacking any guidance from you, I googled “Ivan Illich commons” and read his 1982 “The ‘commons’” piece at https://www.panarchy.org/illich/commons.html .

In this piece Ivan tells his story without any references to evidence. But I think it is safe to take the general societal change from ‘common’ to ‘resource’ as historical fact.

Apparently, Ivan ascribes this change to the avarice of evil individuals (the “lords”). Undoubtedly, in many specific instances the change was facilitated by aggressive, self-serving individuals, but it seems to me that more fundamental economic and social forces were at work. Despite Ivan’s rosy view of a common based society, I guess that I would prefer living in our present resource based society, even with all of its short comings and inequities. These problems, I think, can be effective addressed within a resource paradigm.

I’m having trouble following your thoughts. I think I understand (and agree) that ‘defund the police’ is, in it’s extreme, ridiculous, but paradoxical? For me, your imaginary world of commons needs clarification. You say it is a village. For me that conjures up a place of a few hundred to a few thousand people; smaller would be a hamlet, larger would be a town. Given the invariants of how human brains operate, even a village of a few hundred would have a variety of ongoing social problems that would need to be addressed. Presumably in a small village such problems could be addressed as they arose by a voluntary village council. But a village of a few thousand would probably find it advantageous to create some sort of recognized office of public safety, i.e., some sort of police.

Another problem I have with Ivan’s vision of a commons based society is that at scale they have not happened. Some hunter-gatherer bands took all of their substances from ‘the commons,’ [2] but once year-round, settled agriculture took hold my impression is that social hierarchies formed, and with them private ownership and ‘police.’

In your closing, I’m not sure what you mean by “The New Normal.” In response to “What is meant by the current phrase ‘the new normal'?” ChatGPT replied (among other things) that “Ultimately, the ‘new normal’ refers to a shift in the way things are done, which has become the expected and accepted standard.” Certainly, human rights agreements are under attack around the world. In a human society of any significant size, to be operable ‘rights’ must be encoded in laws. The police, are by definition, an agency charged with enforcing laws. So, aren’t police necessary to ensure the continuation of this common?

Are human rights in fact being eroded? In the democracies I’m not sure there is a clear-cut answer. In a democracy there will always be contention over what is a ‘right’, and what us not. Operationally, when push comes to shove, in a democracy this is decided by majority vote. There is constant disagreement and back and forth changes. As long as civility, empathy, and compromise prevail, I think that this is the best that humans can manage.

Notes

[1] For me, Stranger Worlds is a social reality entity. “The Police and Commons” is a sub-entity.

[2] The Old Way, Elizabeth Thomas, 2007.

Expand full comment
26 more comments...

No posts